Submissive behavior and the police

[nancylebov]

I went to a presentation of Busted at the local anarchist book store. The video covers some basics like not consenting to searches and not giving away information if you're a suspect. The presenter was a lawyer who answered questions and added local information. Unfortunately, I hit overload at some point, so I can't remember in what way New Jersey law and practice tend to be more intrusive that Philadelphia's, though at least PA isn't likely to countersue if you try to sue the police.

Anyway, I've seen advice in more than one place to use submissive body language when dealing with the police. The video implicitly recommended solid (a little on the assertive side of neutral, I'd say) body language. I asked the lawyer about it, and he said he didn't think submissive body language helped, and overdoing it could make the police suspicious.

Anyone know if there's evidence one way or the other?

Comments

[bruhinb.livejournal.com]

Police are individuals. There are no guarantees regarding which behaviors are best for all situations. I would say, just act natural, within the limits of your stress level at the time. Don't give away anything you don't think they have a legal right to ask from you, but don't be a jerk, either.

[redbird]

That the police have a legal right to ask a question does not mean you are legally required to answer it, or that answering it is in your best interest (even, or especially, if you're innocent). Leading questions are legal. So is "you may as well confess, your friend already told us you did it" when your friend said no such thing and in fact hasn't talked to them at all. Or when your friend said that you and he were both someplace else at the time.

[nancylebov.livejournal.com]

Absolutely, but it's good to have more specific knowledge than that--frex, if the police show up at your door, go outside to talk with them, locking your door behind you.

In general, locks are good. The police need an additional warrant to go into locked areas (trunk and containers) in your car.

As stated, I hit overload, but there are subtleties about your legal rights, and they vary by whether you're home, in a public place, in a commercial space, or at work.

[madfilkentist]

It's important to remember that even if you're innocent of what the cops are looking for, making too much information available may lead them to something else that they can go after you -- or a friend -- for. You get told, "If you don't have anything to hide, you don't have anything to worry about." But so many things are illegal that everyone has something that ought to be hidden. There could be drug traces on the money in your wallet. You could be in violation of some obscure aspect of the fire code. Perhaps a friend of yours smokes marijuana and you don't know it. Give an aggressive cop enough room, and he'll find some excuse to arrest you or someone you know.

[nellorat.livejournal.com]

I think the body language you don't want is whatever could seem threatening/aggressive to the cop. Maybe some suggest submissive body language just so you completely avoid contentious body language. I'd think calm, reasonable, but no hint of a smirk would do also.

[nancylebov.livejournal.com]

Thanks for actually answering my question. You might be right about some, but I've seen very explicit suggestions that made it clear they meant submissive.

[selenite.livejournal.com]

When dealing with one I'm not going to think "cop." I'm going to think "tense high-testosterone male with gun who's had colleagues killed doing the exact same thing he's doing now" and be as non-threatening as possible. Discussing my rights and potential lawsuits can wait until the adrenaline's out of his system.

[nancylebov.livejournal.com]

I recommend watching the video. It isn't a matter of discussing your rights, it's a matter of using them.

For what it's worth, the lawyer who did the presentation talked as though he had a lot of experience with a variety of cases, and wasn't naive about the police. For example, he was emphatic about not running. If you run from the Philadelphia police, you'll get beaten if they catch you.

On the other hand, the police do have some self-control, and apparently will frequently respond appropriately to calm statements like "Am I free to go?" and "I do not consent to a search".

We aren't entirely in a police state yet (SWAT teams are a different matter), and we might as well not behave as though we are.

By the way, some of the police are women.

[nancylebov.livejournal.com]

The recommendation is to not tell them *anything* without a lawyer present.

[inquisitiveravn.livejournal.com]

BTW, the bookstore link is broken.

[nancylebov.livejournal.com]

Fixed. Thanks.