nancylebov: (green leaves)
[personal profile] nancylebov
https://law.yale.edu/system/files/documents/pdf/Faculty/Langbein_Land_Without_Plea_Bargaining.pdf

Longish, but worth reading at least the first half or so.

The German legal system has efficient trials, and I don't mean railroading people, I mean not wasting time by not having an adversarial system. They don't have plea bargaining because they don't have an overwhelmed court system which creates the incentive for plea bargaining.

At this point, the German style strikes me as simply superior to the American style.

If anyone knows more about how the German legal system works out in practice, let me know.

A little more about the American system....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/walterpavlo/2018/07/31/are-innocent-people-pleading-guilty-a-new-report-says-yes/#795a40d35193

Date: 2018-08-09 09:26 pm (UTC)
madfilkentist: Photo of Carl (Default)
From: [personal profile] madfilkentist
I've been to Germany lots of times and personally know a German judge, but I don't know much about their legal system, so I can't comment on the article from independent knowledge. Certainly the plea bargaining system in the US is a disaster. The author downplays the case load as a major reason the US uses it so much, but I think it has to be the principal reason.

The article talks about expressing remorse as a mitigating factor but doesn't think it's much of a problem. People who are innocent, though, get punished more severely unless they falsely confess and fake remorse for what they didn't do. This is a problem in the US system and sounds as if it must be a problem in the German system as well.

IANAL, of course.

Date: 2018-08-09 11:22 pm (UTC)
marycatelli: (Default)
From: [personal profile] marycatelli
And the innocent don't get paroled as easily, for the same reason.

Date: 2018-08-10 01:45 am (UTC)
thnidu: It actually says MUPHRY'S LAW and the bottom of the word LAW is clipped off (Murphy's Law)
From: [personal profile] thnidu
Double, double, what's the trouble?
Double, double, what's the trouble?


(Look at your post, from top to bottom.)
Edited Date: 2018-08-10 01:46 am (UTC)

That Forbes article...

Date: 2018-08-10 11:51 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] mental_mouse
ETA: OK, I read the Forbes article first and kinda went off on it. Need to dial back a little of what I said.

The article talks about how the courts are oh so overwhelmed, and then bemoans how the white-collar criminals are getting such horrible long sentences even though they didn't actually commit violence...

No mention whatsoever of the point that those white-collar criminals have been stealing the savings of multitudes, in direct violation of the trust placed in them by their clients and the public.

More importantly, that juxtaposition lets them imply (without saying) that it's the white-collar trials that are overloading the system, while they mostly avoid mentioning the elephant in the room. That would be the So-Called War On Drugs sweeping up blacks, Hispanics, and the poor.

Those folks are *also* facing massive sentences for non-violent crimes, are far more likely to get prosecuted than any (white) white-collar criminal, and are much less likely to get a competent legal defense. But hey, Forbes Magazine isn't interested in *those* people....
Edited (dialing back a little.) Date: 2018-08-12 01:46 am (UTC)

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