Following up on "People who enjoy making others angry"

[nancylebov]

http://nancylebov.livejournal.com/147084.html

A couple of more thoughts about a scientific study which found a correlation between testosterone levels and being reinforced by seeing a frowny face.

I don't think it's just about testosterone. There are top athletes who are known as reliably friendly and kind. I'm guessing here, but I bet it takes above average testosterone to build the muscle mass needed for many sports and to be interested enough in competition to play at high levels. I bet there are at least other hormones in play. It also might be possible for early training to affect a positive response to frowns--it might be more like repression than actually making it go away, though.

It's a little more complicated than a response which is always there or not. In general, I don't like hurting people's feelings, but there have been times when I was in an abstracted bad mood, and strangers have told me to smile. I'd snap at them, see their faces fall, and cheer up immediately, like flipping a switch. On one level, this is funny--after all, they did want me to be happy. They just weren't expecting to pay a price. On the other hand, it spooked me quite a bit--was there some sort of lurking nastiness in my psyche? Maybe not--maybe it's just a testosterone(?) surge from being exposed to presumptuousness from a stranger when I'm already in a bad mood.

Comments

I like to mess

[wolfdancer.livejournal.com]

With telamarkters. If I can make them hang up or quit, I win.
Also the same for colections peaple.

[captain-button.livejournal.com]

On the last, my offhand speculation is that you were being glad that at least something worked right for you (snapping at them to make them unhappy was successful). Put another way, you exercised a bit of control over the universe which is being generally difficult (which may be why you are in a bad mood).

Digressing, it is a speculation of mine that this is why toddlers will do things like throw stuff on the floor just to make you pick it up. The idea that they can influence reality is new to them, and they are having fun with it.

[nancylebov.livejournal.com]

A nice thought, but it was a very specific sort of experience. I don't think I'd have gotten the same kick out of making a third party smile.

I don't know if you've had to deal with being told to smile (quite possibly not, since you're a man), but it's very presumptuous. On the other hand, I'm usually not much into revenge.

I've also very occasionally had my usual "don't want to hurt people" mental state go away. Fortunately, my habits are such that I just claw a little rather than getting egregiously nasty, but it's a noticeble internal change.

I believe that my generally civilized style is something I've cultivated, but it also has a physiological basis.

[captain-button.livejournal.com]

Something only peripherally related to this, but it looks like the sort of thing that would interest you:

"Testosterone-Crazed Devil Apes Play the Ultimatum Game!"
http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2007/07/testosterone-cr.html

or "Testosterone economics"
http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2007/07/testosterone-ec.html

>>>
Remember the ultimatum game?

In this game, one player divides a pot of money between himself and another. The other then chooses whether to accept the offer. If he rejects it, neither player benefits. And despite the instincts of classical economics, a stingy offer (one that is less than about a quarter of the total) is, indeed, usually rejected.

Here is the latest result:

...the responders who rejected a low final offer had an average testosterone level more than 50% higher than the average of those who accepted. Five of the seven men with the highest testosterone levels in the study rejected a $5 ultimate offer but only one of the 19 others made the same decision.
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