Bon bons: The OED writes back

[nancylebov]

> From: Nancy Lebovitz
> Sent: 26 January 2008 17:44
> To: OED3
> Subject: Bon bons
>
> I recently asked about bon bons on my blog, and found a range of candies
> and definitions which aren't covered by your definition. Most people seem
> to think a bon bon is a particular sort of candy (though they don't
> necessarily agree on what sort), rather than just any confection.
>
> http://nancylebov.livejournal.com/199744.html?view=1195328#t1195328
>
> I regret that I don't have paper sources, but bon bons have been around
> long enough that it may not be too hard to find them.
>
> Nancy Lebovitz
>
> P.S. Is there any hope you'll offer single word look-up for about $3?
> I'd pay that.

From: Nancy Lebovitz
Sent: 28 January 2008 14:36
To: OED3
Subject: RE: Bon bons

> Thank you for your message. You do need to bear in mind that the OED
> entry was written a very long time ago, for the first edition of the
> dictionary, and has hardly been touched since. We shall look carefully
> at the accumulated evidence when we come to rewrite the entry. In
> British English, BON-BON used on its own tends to have a very general
> sense ('a sweet'), and particular varieties are indicated by a
> qualifying word: TOFFEE BON-BON, for example - hard to find now, but a
> great treat in my youth.

Thanks for getting back to me. I was beginning to wonder if part of the
problem was a difference between British and American English.

"Bon-bon" is a small thing, but it's somehow brought home to me some of
what a huge project it is to keep track of definitions of English words.
It's not just keeping up with new words, it's that the old words won't
stay put.

> As for your suggestion about single-word look-up, we have tried to find
> a cost-effective way of making this available, and failed. In the UK
> the entire public library network has a corporate subscription to the
> OED (and our other online products), which gives library users free
> access, often from home.

Thanks for trying, and that's a very nice feature of living in the UK.

May I quote your email as part of my online discussion?

Nancy Lebovitz

OED:

> I suppose it's a mixed metaphor to call bon-bons a can of worms, but
> regional differences in usage are a real problem for us, on top of
> temporal shifts. You are welcome to quote me!

Thoughts not in email:

It hit me that the US isn't the only ex-colony with divergent English. I bet trying to keep track of Indian English is a huge job.

dcseain told me that access to the OED comes with a Maryland library card, but I don't know if it's only at a library, or if it can be done from home. The Maryland library card only costs $15/year for non-residents, a much better deal than $30/month or $295/year for getting an OED subscription.

I'm surprised they couldn't find a way to make $3/word work for them. Any theories about why that would be hard?

"Bon bon" has the most fractured meaning of any word I know-- I suspect it's a combination of it being rather rarely used but still having an attractive aura which makes it look commercially valuable, so it gets attached to a number of different candies, not to mention Christmas crackers.

Comments

[chickenfeet2003.livejournal.com]

I bet trying to keep track of Indian English is a huge job.

Indeed yes

[rimrunner.livejournal.com]

We also provide access to the OED at my library (though our borrower's cards are $100 a year if you aren't affiliated with the university) but I mention it because you can access it from home, along with most of our other online resources. This is pretty standard for libraries now and I'd be surprised if it wasn't available in this case.

[hummingwolf.livejournal.com]

Well, I have a Maryland library card, and I don't see any obvious way on the local library system's website to access the OED from home. But you have inspired me to find a bunch of other references which I can use from here, so thank you for that!

[janetmk.livejournal.com]

Remote-access OED shows up on the Web site of the Montgomery County MD public library (http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/Content/Libraries/index.asp) (top right pull-down list, choose A-Z databases). You might try plugging in your library card number on the required sign-in screen since I think the same card is used throughout the state.

The Montgomery County library will issue a free card to Virginians and DC residents too. I should stop by and apply for one.

[janetmk.livejournal.com]

David Crystal talks about the divergence of English, past and future, in his book The Stories of English. It's a fascinating and rewarding book though rather weighed down by all the examples he provides. I think he says somewhere that there are now more non-native users of English than native ones. The language is bending in response.

[whc.livejournal.com]

I have a technical book that states: "This book was written in that international stream of the English language which is being increasingly employed in Europe and other parts of the world as a medium of communication be people for whom, generally, English is not their mother tongue"


"...whilst trying to remove elements which might obstruct the understanding by a native English speaker..."

[gildedacorn.livejournal.com]

This university library's subscription works only within its system. I can't reach it from any other computer. Nevertheless, I'd see no reason to pay extra for a lookup elsewhere, except possibly when playing Scrabble with A.

[nancylebov.livejournal.com]

As I suspected, the Philadelphia library doesn't offer access to the OED. If I get access to the OED, it might as well be one I can reach by going on the web.

[gildedacorn.livejournal.com]

Hm. Did you talk to Mord about this?

[dsgood.livejournal.com]

Some differences between UK English and US English are a result of changes in England while the US kept the same word or meaning. Others come from influence by Scots and Ulster Scots, and by various immigrant languages (and Native American languages.) And some do come from American changes.

Every country in which English is a major language does seem to have its own traps for foreign English-speakers. You can get some idea of this by reading various English-language versions of Google News.

[landley.livejournal.com]

Assuming it takes about 15 minutes to field a word lookup request, including all research and composing a reply message, someone doing lookups for $3 each will gross $12/hour. That's before taxes, before paying for office space and net connection, and without health insurance or any other kind of benefits. At 40 hours/week and 50 weeks a year (with 2 weeks unpaid vacation) that's $24k/year. (This is assuming you have a steady supply of exactly 32 questions per day with no gaps resulting in unpaid down time.) And you'd need a college degree to do this.

Rob

[nancylebov.livejournal.com]

I was assuming that word look-up would be completely automated through a website.

[landley.livejournal.com]

But you'd already looked up the word in the OED, hadn't you?

I thought most people used dict.org for dictionary stuff...

[nancylebov.livejournal.com]

No. I don't have an OED, and I don't have a subscription. The reason the OED definition showed up in my comment thread is that gildedacorn looked it up and posted it.