Doing the right thing

[nancylebov]

Woman gets hit with stray bullet, heads to hospital. NYPD officers decide she’s lying about what happened, arrest her, detain her for five days . . . then release her with no charges.

The right thing aspect is that the police wanted her to accuse her ex-boyfriend with shooting her, and she refused to do so, even though being held in squalid conditions-- one hamburger/day and insufficient access to bathroom facilities.

What I've seen in response to this story is anger at the NYPD police and hopes that she wins a big settlement. That's all very well, but respect is owed because she wasn't willing to wreck someone else's life, even under a great deal of pressure.

Large cash awards are definitely better no recourse at all, but they don't seem to lead to changes in policy. I think it's necessary to punish the individuals responsible for these outrages, or at least fire them.

Comments

[caper_est]

Yeah, that sounded mighty raw, even for them. And while she certainly deserves heavy compensation, I don't see that the NYPD's continuing to take money from the public to pay the public for its abuses of the public is likely to lead to any bigger behavioural changes on their part than hitherto noted. Why would it?

So right behind you on the need both to keep the pressure on, and to keep track amidst the outrage of the lady's role as hero, as well as victim. All respect to her, indeed; respect due also to you, for bringing that to the fore.

[crystalpyramid]

WTF.

[zenlizard]

Well, yes, an appropriate response would be to dismiss those within the department responsible, and issue a court order banning them from future employment in the law enforcement or private security fields. Not likely to happen, though.

[twistedchick]

It's not just the idea of suing them and getting a large judgment against the police involved; it's the fact that such a trial would publicize their bad behavior and make it so obviously inexcusable that the police would *have* to do something in order to appear to be responsive. Such responsiveness could include reprimands, suspensions, or firings. I doubt that anyone would be fired, though -- no matter how appropriate that would be.

[andrewducker]

Speaking of NY Cops:
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/414/transcript
(Second half)

[dr-zrfq.livejournal.com]

*Is* there any way to force the department to fire those individuals? Is there any way at all to force the necessary punishments to happen?

[doomspark.livejournal.com]

Honestly, any website with a name like "theagitator" isn't one I'm going to take seriously. It doesn't even try to present a fair and unbiased report of the incident.

[nancylebov.livejournal.com]

What would you consider to be a reliable source?

[doomspark.livejournal.com]

Most "news" websites these days - and I use the quotes deliberately - aren't about reporting news. They take facts and spin them into a story that's slanted one way or another, usually with a lurid and misleading headline that's designed to get people to click on it to read the story.

I don't consider any single website as a reliable source for news. I read different sites and try to gather different perspectives before forming an opinion.

[nancylebov.livejournal.com]

Your earlier comment reminded me that when I first heard of The Agitator, the name sounded to me as though it would be an uninspired left wing blog.

Actually, Radley Balko (who runs it) is a libertarian and a journalist, and his blog is the best I know of for justice system abuses. He reports on folks in the justice system (all too few of them) who oppose the abuses, too. I strongly recommend adding his blog to your rota.

[avram]

He’s got a four-paragraph quote from his source, a NY Daily News article. He’s also got a link that I’m guessing was supposed to go to the article, but 404s. Here’s one that (currently) works:

• NY Daily News: “Five days, no charges: Stray bullet victim held ‘captive’ when cops don’t believe her story”

There’s nothing extra in that article, that Balko didn’t mention, that makes the NYPD look any more reasonable.

Here are some more (for now) working links:

• CBS New York: “Wounded Brooklyn Woman Held For 5 Days Says NYPD Tried To ‘Get Me To Lie’”
• The Brooklyn Daily Eagle: “A Bullet in the Leg, and Five Days in Handcuffs”

[doomspark.livejournal.com]

In Florida I don't think they need charges to hold someone on an outstanding warrant. And I'm also not sure that the 24 hour rule applies to people picked up on outstanding warrants. The rules *may* be different in NY.

Her treatment while in custody reads like "he said, she said" once you strip off all the emotion-laden phrasing.

And her suing the city tends to make me think that she's got some get-rich-quick lawyer trying to get the public boo'd up about the case so she'll get a big settlement of which the aforementioned lawyer will take the majority.

[avram]

Why are you making excuses for the cops here? You're aware that this incident took place in New York City, and involves the NYC cops, and NYC law, and you've got three NYC-local news sources verifying that she should have been brought before a judge within 24 hours. Why are you bringing Florida law into it? Are you just desperately grasping for an excuse not to believe this woman?

She says she was held for five days, and nobody's disputed that yet. In all those three stories, the only claim of Griffin's that the NYPD is quoted as disputing is the one about access to a bathroom, and even that isn't a direct rebuttal, because it leaves open the possibility that she was held somewhere without a bathroom for some part of the five days, and someplace with one for the rest.

If she was held as she claims, she's entirely within her rights to sue.

[thnidu.livejournal.com]

The overall problem is usually summarized as "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" : 'Who will guard the guards themselves?'.

When I went to look it up just now, I found that the original context is much less weighty than the way the line is usually used:

D. IVNI IVVENALIS SATVRA VI
[D. Satire #6 of Junius Juvenalis (lines 346-351)]

[audio quid ueteres olim moneatis amici,
'pone seram, cohibe.' sed quis custodiet ipsos
custodes? cauta est et ab illis incipit uxor.]
iamque eadem summis pariter minimisque libido,
nec melior silicem pedibus quae conterit atrum    [350]
quam quae longorum uehitur ceruice Syrorum.


Satire 6.
[Translated by G. G. Ramsay]
The Ways of Women

I hear all this time the advice of my old friends----keep your women at home, and put them under lock and key. Yes, but who will watch the warders? Wives are crafty and will begin with them. High or low their passions are all the same. She who wears out the black cobble-stones with her bare feet is no better than she who rides upon the necks of eight stalwart Syrians.